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Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-12 13:37:29
And yet there's countless Lineage 2 private servers, with at least a few hundred to a few thousand players on each, playing 2007-2010 versions of the game. And they play it because they enjoy the pvp and the community. Oh and L2 is a pvx game, so Intrepid ain't inventing anything new there. It's just that L2's pve is kinda trash, but pretty much anything you do in L2 is tied to pve, and usually to do that pve you gotta go through pvp, hence PvX. Now obviously those player numbers are not WoW/FF14-sized, but L2 is also a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-12 17:40:29
Nah, it was just an example of a pvx game based around purely community interaction that's still played even w/o any new content. I'm not saying it's successful, just saying that these kinds of games are viable too (with EVE being another example). I haven't played EQ and haven't really researched anything about it. Has it changed a lot through its existence? Cause L2 died exactly because NCsoft not only disregarded their core playerbase by implementing a shitton of changes that people disliked, which led to "classic" private servers. And even when they implemented their own classic servers, they ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-12 18:08:22
I'd prefer mana play across all classes, so I'd rather have people try and control the enemy healer's mana pool/expenditure/etc than have this convoluted system of controlled hp pools within hp pools.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 15:57:12
I definitely agree, but I see one super obvious problem in Ashes case. Most of its pve will be done through/after/before pvp. And no matter how good that pve is, if all the pvers hate pvp so much that they're ready to leave the game - they'll leave Ashes. L2's epic boss rooms were a semi-instance (the doors to them would open for some period of time and anyone could come in, but, once they closed, those who were inside had to beat the boss. If they wiped completely, the doors would open up again a bit later) and ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 16:14:29
And what I meant by "I'd prefer mana play across all classes" was exactly the stuff that would prevent this kind of shit. Give bards a "mana regen block" debuff, give rogues a "manaleak" debuff, give other clerics a "manasteal" spell, give mages a "manaburn" spell, give tanks a "manadrain" stun, give summoners a summon that gains power the more mana it steals from its target, give fighters and rangers "mana explosion" hits that do dmg dependent on the target's current mana %. All of those are just super fast ideas that I came up with on the spot. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 16:17:59
It's two sides of the same coin.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 16:50:57
Both pve and pvp are tied directly to your gear progress. You can't do high lvl content in either of those w/o good gear, with pve giving you that gear. And the ones who participate and are successful in both of those things can then be successful in node changes. And changing node, in turn, influence the kind of pve and pvp you can experience. So your gear progress is directly tied to nodes and nodes existence is directly tied to progress of people's gear.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 16:55:50
And here's what I see as zerg (though still somewhat small imo) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwYSPH7uGEw
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 18:50:54
And I hope Ashes manages to appeal to all of those people. And they also said that those 20% would probably be mainly story-related. And even outside of story-based instances, they won't be repeatable nor would they give BiS gear, so most wow/ff14 players would find themselves fighting other people for their gear. And afaik WoW went away from open world bosses exactly because they were too difficult to farm on pvp servers. And considering Steven's promises of "only 1% of players will be able to clear some content", I'd assume the pvp would only make that content near-impossible. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 19:40:38
Yeah, that mechanic is also very interesting to me cause it will either be somewhat useless cause it's in an instanced dungeon that doesn't give BiS (unless they go back on that statement) or it's an impossible pvx fiesta that gets abused by all sides of the conflict. I see. Yeah, I hope they can manage to develop it in the way the want and not give in to the obvious solution of "we'll just separate the pvpers and the pvers with instances". Though I really dunno how they can realistically do that.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 19:53:32
Which is why I said it's two sides of the same coin. People would have no interest in leveling up nodes if it didn't progress their character (which comes in the form of gear giving them 50% of character's power) and that gear would be useless if you didn't have the leveled up nodes giving you new content to clear, which would give you better gear, which would allow you to level nodes even higher or change which nodes are highly leveled, which would change content even further, and so on and so on. One feeds into the other. ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 20:07:05
I guess that's where our goals differ. I build up the world around me to build myself up. I guess you have more reasons to do that. And that's good. It means the game has a lot of offer to a lot of different people.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-13 22:34:37
The only thing that worries me is the 2nd reference from this page . And that's september of 2021, so pretty close to the current stage of development (with a more recent reference talking about the no-BiS stuff). And Steven says that those instances are not something to farm repeatedly, so how exactly would those pve players have enough non-pvp content to enjoy the game? If we assume one big instance per metro (with some pre-top gear as a one-time reward), there'll be 5 dungeons that top lvl people can do once as non-pvp content. And that's assuming that ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 01:22:22
There's a question of chicken and egg there. Was it the companies that screwed up those games with those "features" or was it the pvp games that required those "features" to survive on the market for longer than a month? Yeah, I bet pvpers will spend a lot of time/resources removing their PK counts just so they can PK an extra few people during some upcoming raid just to secure their farm. We did that in L2 even though the penalty there is nowhere near AoC's. No one will care about immediate corruption penalties during the raid because they ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 01:46:45
That is most definitely something a robot would say. I don't believe you.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 02:20:00
Even before AA, Lineage 2 shifted from sub model to a f2p with a ton of p2w shit, back in the day when WoW still sold like hotcakes and kept the sub. And I guess it made NCsoft so much money that any and all korean companies just decided to have that as a default. And acceptance of p2w shit in that culture also didn't help. At least from what I've heard recently, koreans are trying to push against p2w stuff, so maybe it'll at least reduce in the next few years. And I really hope that Ashes succeeds ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 02:23:18
Depending on how many potential bots there could be on any given server, I doubt GMs would have the time to immediately respond to a bot PK to do that. And you definitely can't do that kind of thing preemptively cause bot determination is either too difficult or so easy that bot gets autobanned before it can even start farming.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 15:05:00
I'd hope we can't. Your reputation should mean a lot so you shouldn't circumvent that by hiding your name/affiliations in different situations.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 15:37:54
This would just remove any pvp in the open world. If Steven wanted a game like that he could've just made a game w/o open world pvp. Everyone who hasn't played Lineage 2 are way too scared of being killed/harassed when in reality that'll be really rare and when it does happen, the damage to the reputation of the harasser is usually bigger than the dmg to the victim.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 16:48:04
Purples wouldn't have a disadvantage. A group of harassers would still be able to harass a player by just attacking the victim once each while they're green. Then they'll wait however long the timer is and attack again. And the aggressor always having the first hit on their side dissuades the green players from fighting back even more. So greens don't fight back while anyone who wants to pvp can't hit anyone beyond a single hit, otherwise they get fucked by the corruption system. And greens know that the purples can't do anything to them beyond the first hit ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 16:56:48
Google says that even the Olympic Committee recognizes Chess as a sport.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 17:20:01
I mean, official Olympic Committee is a fair bit better than people who believe in flat earth, but whatever really. You exert yourself in both football and chess. You use your brain in both and you use your body in both. To different extent in either of those, but the usage is still there. Yes, you don't cross them together by playing football on chess boards or chess on the football field, but both of them can be sports because they make use of your body to, sometimes, extreme extents. And they can appeal to the same people for ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 18:21:28
Yeah, my point there was that your system wouldn't remove harassment. Yeah, and fighting for the right to pve is a core concept in Ashes. The soft friction between players leads to good interactions. You want to farm a cool mob or a rare resource? You either gotta be lucky to not have any competitors for the same goal or fight for them. And on top of that you can just be killed for your loot later on. Except in your system you'll lose twice as much loot if you don't immediately fight back against an attacker. Most likely ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 18:31:41
No one is being hostile towards you. If anything, you're the one escalating this discussion beyond what it is right now. Crow criticized your system, because it does not fit the current goal of the corruption system. Being red and having a ton of penalties for it are meant to prevent people from murdering others left and right. In your system, corruption system prevents people from attacking others at all. There is no reason for a green player to fight back in your system. Even the pvp players won't attack, because that's not beneficial for them. What's beneficial in ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 18:47:47
It's a double-edged sword. On one side we have potential spyish gameplay and fun rp stuff, while on the other side we have potential PKers wearing shitty clothes coming close to a casual player to kill them while seeing the attacker's name might've indicated to the casual player that they should either prepare to fight or to just run immediately. There's also all the interactions with node/guild wars members and "kill on sight" guild orders for other guild's members and other similar stuff, where hiding your name would either give you a huge advantage or just add disruption to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 19:24:03
Except you might go red because you don't see your target's hp so you don't know which of your hits can kill them. But yes, you won't be penalized for just attacking a person w/o killing them. If Steven wanted to punish people for attacking other people, he'd implement your system or would just remove open world pvp because that's exactly what will happen if your system was implemented.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 20:48:55
I'm pretty sure it would increase griefing. The griefers from the current system would stay the same, except they'd probably be even more annoying because they'd follow you around for longer, waiting for their flag timers to reset after each hit. So they'd be hanging above you for, potentially, dozens of minutes, like that one killer with a spoon from the meme video. He might want to kill you if he deems it rewarding enough against the risk of becoming red if you decide not to fight back. And with each hit that you don't return, his risk goes ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 22:47:16
I think Alacrite means that a random player is still free to kill another player at any time, so the result doesn't change at the end. Even though the path to that result is different.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 23:50:46
In Alacrite's system a green becomes purple after hitting another green. But purple immediately becomes red if they attack a green. So any green has a free hit against anyone, but anymore outgoing damage towards a green player would immediately turn red. I also forgot to ask Alacrite how would dots work in that system lol. Would that be one hit or several? Imagine becoming red because you missclicked and used a dot instead of a singular spell.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-05-14 23:55:58
You missed an E at the end of the ping.