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Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 18:52:10
I loved that the rock throw ability pushed the character back. What I wanna know is whether there'll be pushback from strong mob attacks if you're blocking with a shield. Same in pvp. Would some player be able to push me back with a super strong attack? I feel like that'd be a super cool and "realistic" use of the body collision system.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 18:55:59
They are already doing that with not giving out api and being against addons. Outside of that they can't really do anything against people who can use a pen and a paper.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 19:39:00
The biggest potential issue with this I can see is all the people always complaining about loss of agency and control due to other players' actions. Wasn't NW's stagger removed cause people complained about that type of thing? Or was it just "too hard" for people?
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 19:53:47
Crafting dials that make each BiS specialized to different classes, so there's no singular "best" item. Gear decay that serves as a mat sink. Rarity of those mat drops, by controlling boss respawns so that there isn't thousands of mats for BiS items. OE that will destroy your gear (we don't know yet if completely or just decays it to 0), so yet another mat sink. Those seem like a good way to control "Best" items in the game.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 20:03:38
I mean, it's on Amazon to properly balance their design instead of removing it completely just because some people don't like it. Fast weapons stunlock people with stagger? Make the stagger have diminishing returns on such weapons. Slow weapons feel "weak"? Make their stagger a fraction of a second longer, so that you have a "bigger dick" feeling when hitting someone, but your target could still dodge you if they're faster so you still need skill to use that "big dick".
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 20:21:47
I'm as big of a tab targeter as you can get, but I don't care enough to argue against the action combat people because I don't care enough about combat to argue for/against smth. The only thing I can argue for is "pls move on with what you've made". And from the general feedback I've seen so far, it seems that there's a good chance that Intrepid can finally move on, because a lot of people seem to like the direction already.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 20:36:54
If you hate missed damage, this game is not for you
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 20:49:22
And on the topic of aiming, I've aimed way fucking more in my gameplay of L2 than I ever did in BDO. Now, I haven't played too much of BDO (barely any really), but even from what I've played, I could already see that pointing a camera towards a person is not the same as pixel hunting in a 100++-dude crowd for the targets you wanna hit first. And on top of that pixel hunting you have detargetting abilities that make you be constantly aware of your target. AND there's self-targeted buffs that you should use fairly often, so ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 22:23:11
Nowhere have they said that they're moving away from the tab part of their hybrid combat system.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-06-30 22:43:30
As Okey said, nothing changed in the last year. Alpha1 had action combat normal attacks with cleave and had a few action combat skills iirc. So literally nothing has indicated a shift in the design direction. And as Vaknar has pointed out in the main feedback thread - the game is still Hybrid.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 02:06:29
And with body collision you'd only be able to attack people at the front, which will be purely tanks (cause that would be the immediate meta). And unless literally all abilities can be lobbed over the targets' heads, ya ain't hitting anyone behind those tanks. There's a reason why action combat games are usually purely open world and wide open spaces, because you're limited by environment design by combat design. While back in L2 we had narrow chokepoints in castle sieges and dungeons. And you had to pick and choose your targets appropriately out of 50-100++ people on your ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 02:59:12
And it's kinda the same way when it comes to huge pvp battles. The variety of counter play is much bigger and the ability to single out targets in a huge crowd is super important to setup that variety. You could throw some powerful debuffs on enemy healers or cancel some of their buffs in order to help your dps dudes to kill them faster and now you have an upperhand not only in hp, but in mana too, because even if their healer gets revived, they'll have to be rebuffed, which decreases their buffer's combat ability in the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 03:04:45
They haven't uploaded the vod on youtube yet, so here's a clip from Asmon's stream. I think this'll answer your question https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxKUomtdRbHk49wQ22fnY6p1jNftpdeRNE
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 03:06:53
I think you misread that. Noaani means that Intrepid can't tell other people what they need. They can tell those people what they'll get, and people are free to like or dislike that amount, but Intrepid can't tell them what those people need.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 03:09:56
I mean, that's what I hope it does. I'd even love to have some rocky/mountainous things around its spawn location so that it could jump from the sand onto them and do some huge aoe that targets the sand, or some shit like that. A kind of reverse tremors move.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 03:16:56
I've played with quite a few people who replaced literally all their skills on the bar with macros (cause on some versions of L2 that sped up the cast delay by fraction of a second). And those macros didn't show cds, so those dudes just had to remember which skill was which macro and play purely by feel of cds. And in L2 pvp you didn't stand in one place all the time. You'd be moving, flowing, changing targets while also clicking the ground to move, picking debuff targets from a crowd and so on and so on. And ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 03:28:44
And for me there was no reason to look at my skills cause I knew where they were under my hands and I, at least roughly, knew their cds. While looking at everything else on the screen meant the difference between my survival and death, and optimal farm too. I'd be constantly spinning the camera to check the entrances to my farming room and to check if some mobs have respawned, because they'd have staggered timers due to difference in ttk. And when I was in a party I'd be checking what others are doing just to be in ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 03:47:35
L2's tab targetting didn't work as "just tab between enemies". You'd have to click on them, because the "tab" switching (called Next Target and was a general active ability and not an innate feature) would have a very short range. And unless you were a melee class (though even those not always), you wouldn't really have any uses for that feature. And the macros didn't add anything to make things easier. It was just a macro that said "/Delay /use skill ___". It was just a replacement of the skill icon with a macro icon that didn't show the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 03:53:32
And I think that's literally the point of this whole discussion. There's different experiences from different games, yet you generalize those whole subgenre and dismiss any possibility of equal comparison. In Noaani's experience PvE can require you to concentrate on itself all the time. In my experience potential pvp and the pvp itself requires you to always look at your enemy. In your experience neither of those are true because you didn't play games that required either of those things. I'm sure that my BDO experience has made me really biased against some action combat designs, but I'm not ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 04:12:19
Guess our preferences for mass pvp are just different. I watched this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptr1SIQLPFE And personally disliked that it was just tiny skirmishes within a bigger picture, rather than a huge mass of people weaving back and forth, with someone overextending, someone successfully baiting that overextension right up until either of the sides decides to do a big push. You can see what kind of scale I'm talking about on the previous page. I only played the first one allll the way back when it first came out. But from what I remember, it was more of a "a ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 04:50:24
I guess this is one of my main dislikes with most action mmos design. Due to most abilities being aoe, everyone spreads out too far, while I prefer tighter battles. Here's a good example of 9v9 combat. Even though it's in the open space, the fight itself is fairly compact. But even despite that compactness everyone is constantly moving and repositioning, and you had to click on the ground to move, so I'd assume this much movement might be unusual for click-to-move games. https://youtu.be/arYpkDaodN8?t=54 That siege is closer to what I'm used to, mainly because it has a ton ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 15:18:52
In L2 "tab action" had an almost melee range, so everyone mainly clicked on their targets. And usually a party would have the main "clicker" and other dps characters would assist off of their target.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 16:24:37
And as a guild crafter of 6 years, I sure as hell hope there isn't a minigame to increase stats on gear, because it won't be an option for guild crafters - you'll have to craft everything through the minigame to maximize benefit. And when you're crafting hundreds of things a week, it gets not only tiring but tedious to constantly repeat the same minigame.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 17:06:37
And the best thing about this is that different classes can have different ways of doing this instead of just "I move to the side and dodge your hit". In L2 daggers/archers had ultimate evasion that made phys classes miss 95% of hits. Elven daggers had an ability that let them dodge any phys skill for 7 secs. A mage class had a blink ability that had an iframe which let you dodge a projectile if used correctly. Mages could redirect dmg to their mana. Tanks could mirror reflect that damage or completely mitigate it. And several classes had ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 17:38:53
I'm a preferer of super strong visual clarity, so I'd definitely like some longer cds on abilities and smaller vfx on the basic attacks. And considering that basic attacks are not automatic, I'd assume my suggested changes would increase visual clarity by a ton in mass pvp. L2 went from super clarity to pretty much "I got no fucking clue what's going on here" within ~5 years. And quiiiite a lot of people disliked that. One of the reasons for that (aside from just new super-vfxy skills) was the atk/cast speed tie to the animation. Earlier version of the ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 18:17:30
At which point then would you have too many things to physically do in the game? From what I remember of BDO, it's a combo system where you gotta press keys in a proper order or in a proper combination at the same time. And iirc a lot of abilities take directionality into account, so you're using up your movement presses to use a skill (correct me if I'm wrong here). So how exactly would you have a deeper variety of skills, on top of dodgy fast movement, w/o overwhelming the player with a piano-like gameplay. Hell, I played ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 18:22:46
Now I'm nowhere near proper Souls nerds and have never played MH, but even from the 50h of Elden Ring that I played - that shit is so fucking tab target that I don't even know what to say. You can literally target an enemy and strafe around it. If that's not tab, I don't know what is. Yes, you can hit air when you want to, but that's probably the actioniest part of that combat, which isn't saying much.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 18:29:32
Even when they're rare, I'm talking about scale. L2 had super rare top lvl gear and it had the same "every material tier matters" idea. So you had to craft a ton of smaller things that you combined into bigger and better things, so that you can then use those in the final craft of the gear piece itself. And if AoC's crafting will be as in-depth and as controllable as they claim they want it to be - that will be such a fucking pain in the ass to craft. Each and every craftable material will have to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 18:42:59
But I feel like that's Noaani's point. Tab games can have much deeper skill design w/o sacrificing on the speed/difficulty of the encounter, while in order for an action game to be playable with a big amount of skills you gotta slow it down in multiple ways, which kinda defeats the whole purpose of "action games are more skill-based because they require you to react to shit faster". It's just 2 different skillsets. You either use your knowledge of the game's systems and mechanics to properly adapt to the situation or you use your physical ability to react super ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-01 19:34:53
I tried to look for a good video, but every other video has them clicking skills with their mouse and being overall shit at targeting and stuff. Really wish I made some videos back when I was still playing. Here's a vid that at least shows the speed of casting and roughly 85% of the skills on the bar that I used. This is a more magey build of this class, while I went for phys+mage which added a few more skills to the cycle. And on the rewatch of this vid, I think the part where the dude ...