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Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-07 21:27:54
But those are different things? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean by all those words in the context of AoC's crafting system? Or maybe we have a different definition of what a minigame in an mmo is.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-07 21:44:45
I think we're getting to the core of the discussion. It seems to me you just want actiony dodges in your gameplay, and that's it. That rogue from EQ2 video moves around his target. Seems to be trying to move to the back of the target (I assume it's to do more damage, cause that's how daggers worked in L2, but would need Noaani to explain). His skills flow from one to another w/o huge wait times, as a game with a proper gcd would have. And I dunno if you can cancel animations in EQ2, but if you ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-07 21:52:19
Then I deem this whole discussion as yet another completely pointless one (aren't they all though), because this whole argument was about perceived fluidity and "objectivity of claims of that perceived fluidity". But even if that objectivity might move on with the times, the perception of fluidity at the time remains, so I'd say relatively speaking both can coexist. And on the topic of click to move being an old mechanic, doesn't LA have click to move? Maybe not as the main means of traversal, but it's still functional so it hasn't gone away completely. And that shit's an ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-07 22:08:20
Ah, I understand. We just interpreted Steven's words a bit differently. I saw it as just "press an additional button when indicate, while the thing is crafting" and you seem to have understood it as "keep pressing that button, while keeping track of when you need to press it and maybe do that for several different things". I agree with you in not wanting the thing you imagined, while I'd be somewhat fine with hitting another button when I see a red light on the screen, though ideally there'd be none of that at all. But we'll have to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-07 22:22:24
It's because we can't really discuss how Ashes will be, while we still have an apparent need to discuss something, otherwise we wouldn't be on these forums. I'm sure there'll be a ton of productive discussions once Alpha2 comes out.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-07 23:27:09
That sounds a bit like EVE's system. But while it makes sense in the context of hugeass cosmic ships being built or stuff for those sips being crafted/researched, I'm not sure if it would fit in AoC's lore. Or if players would even accept that kind of system. I could maybe see a requirement for several crafters to make a single item cause irl some things would be made by several people at the same time, but this limits future crafting possibilities. What if you need 3 crafters of the top rank to craft some top item, but on ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 03:18:08
Don't forget pvp too.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 17:03:45
You still have skill animations in BDO. I'm pretty sure you can't just use 10 skills at the exact same time, so it also has a "gcd" by your logic. Its cast speeds are just quicker because the whole game is quicker. The only difference between tab and BDO is that bdo's skills are directionally rooted, so they move your character with the skill, while tab games are either completely planted (in the case of click to move) or let you move around while you cast them (which makes the combat feel floaty and unimpactful). But both have skill ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 18:07:09
I literally addressed this by saying "bdo skills are directional". The create the feeling of smoothness because your character moves with the skill and the whole combat design is built around idea. The aiming part is just difference between tab and action, I wouldn't really associate that with fluidity because NW had aiming too and I definitely do not remember that combat looking/feeling fluid. And as I've said before, there's animation cancelation in tab games too (at the very least in L2). It feels more clunky mainly because the whole combat is planted (in the case of L2) so ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 20:50:13
WoW's is 1.5 generally and FF14's is 2.5, so I'm sure there's other tabs that have a long one too, especially if they came out after WoW and decided to copy it to that extent. Do you have any other action games that you consider as fluid as BDO? Cause I feel like BDO's directionally designed combat just completely fucked up game attitude for a lot of people (mainly you). I'm not saying that it's not fluid, but whatever fluidity it does have is definitely boosted by its design and if that kind of design is your preference - ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 20:57:51
So you craft them then? You, as a single person, use a shitton of materials, that dozens of other people worked on, in order to make a single "item". Or do you work the fields to get grain to then mill it into flour? Do you raise chickens to get eggs? Do you raise and milk cows (if you use milk in the recipe)? What about any chemical additions to the recipe like baking powder? And even w/o those things, you still need to combine all of that into one thing, in proper ratios, in order to successfully make ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 21:31:28
A temp-guild system with easy setup and possibility of take over after some period of time/activities. Tavern boards would have a tab with time-based "guilds" that solo players are free to join. The time would indicate when the players in the guild play the most (pretty much player primetime). The players in that temp guild would be able to post invitational announcements on the board itself looking for other solo players who play during the same time. And if some player decides to take more initiative and are ready for the responsibility, they can take over that temp guild, ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 21:37:07
Ashes not having a gcd in its combat was also one of the reasons I got hyped for it. Dunno if GW2 or other hybrids have it, but when I heard that Ashes didn't I knew I'd have way more chances to like it (on top of an already huge bias towards its systems).
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 22:03:01
Again though, action games have cast times too. And even in the last Ashes stream, that hammer skill had an almost 2 second cast time. Would you call that a tab ability? And Ashes won't have animation canceling so you'll have to spend those whole 2 seconds casting that hammer attack. And that's as a warrior! And whirlwind attack seems to be around 4 seconds of unbreakable animation. So if you love BDO's animation cancelling so much, you might not really like AoC's combat, if they continue with this kind of pace of battle.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 22:08:40
I expect/hope that making and upkeeping a guild is not as easy as just existing. I might be wrong in that expectation. But even if I am wrong, most solo players would be scared to join a player-made guild, especially if in their experience guilds required too much from them in the past. But a temp guild's whole point would just be making the partying up process way easier. The game will already be balanced towards party play, so that's gonna push quite a lot of people towards being more sociable, and I think having a "gateway drug" to ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-08 23:28:57
Do you have the stream and a timestamp for that? Cause I'll definitely give that to the wiki guys, cause there's no such info on there rn. Ah, right, there's a difference in that aspect too I got no clue about gcds so the only ones I've heard about are mainly wow's and ff14 and I believe both of those are cast-start -based.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 01:20:05
Yeah, I just rewatched the whole combat video and was just getting to the questions for it. And Okey is right, Steven began to answer before the question got to the "animation canceling" part. And he was just saying that there'll be the ability to dodge incoming attacks and that some abilities will mitigate dmg if used at the right time. Nothing was said about animation canceling, so, at least right now, there's no change in their direction.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 01:59:32
No we do not. Again, he answered "yes" before Margaret could even finish saying animation cancelling. And from the past 2 years of watching their streams I know for damn sure that Steven has so much stuff on his mind that he doesn't respond to splitsecond questions. He's asked Margaret to repeat questions multiple times in the past because he was either looking at chat or was just deep in thought. And in that video you can see him looking to the side when she's asking him the question. And right in the middle of "animation cancelling" he says ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 02:17:49
Except I'm not changing the answer. I'm saying that he wasn't answering the question you wanted him to answer. But yes, we'll just have to wait till they say one way or the other. And as for my own feedback on this point. I don't care.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 02:20:25
Btw, when rewatching the combat video I realized that I missed a core piece of info for myself. In tab targeting you can in fact use action skills against your camera (you look back, while the character looks forward). That was great to see cause that was one of the things I wanted, having missed seeing it during the stream.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 02:25:57
Another pov on the issue. https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxNPWLnfqjw67k1ar6hf9-oWgTh8CoSeH2 A channeling spell can be cancelled midcast because the damage output is drawn out instead of being upfront. I probably should've asked this way earlier, but how exactly does animation cancelling in BDO work? Or, more importantly, does the damage go through at the end of the attack animation or at the start? Cause in my experience the attack check happens at the end of the animation so cancelling the animation stops the attack completely. From what I understand from just hearing about it, ESO players used anicancel because attack check was at ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 02:30:24
But he wants to do everything in Ashes himself. Which is why it's a bad example, cause he did maybe 0.01% of work for those cookies? Probably even less, especially if you take into account the time required to grow grain/chickens/cows. But yes, he can in fact just buy anything at any stage of "cookie making", including the cookie itself.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 02:35:42
And as much as I understand your overall point, I disagree mainly because, to me, using a long cast perfectly is as skillful as dodging an incoming attack after cancelling said long cast. If I can maximize my damage, while minimizing damage to me, all while using 3-5 second animation abilities - I'm at such a high understanding of the game flow and my current opponent that I can perfectly predict (or setup) timeframes where I can use those long casts w/o them losing their damage value. One skill takes twitch skills and fast reactions, the other skill takes ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 02:39:52
And if we go the Sagan way, his work is nowhere near the scale required to make something from scratch on your own
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 05:58:26
And I prefer to not go into voice unless I've spent days/weeks with some people in chat. So there's definitely a range of sociability. And the game pushing people to join others in order to clear content, on top of my suggested temp-guild for time-limited people, should in theory ease in some people into being more social. And if they aren't - oh well, it's their choice.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 07:04:03
I think it's a yes to both of those.
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-09 20:54:25
Love me some "fireball" Sorcerer, where Prominence's animation was so damn fast that you just had a ball of fire in front of the character
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-10 00:47:25
We'll definitely have to see how they design the system itself. I've been a guild crafter multiple times and ~60% of my gameplay was purely crafting, even though it was just a "press button and get the item immediately". If Ashes makes it so that you can be a 100% crafter, because all you do is play the crafting minigame - I'm not sure if that's much better than me just spending the majority of my time crafting, while I can also do other stuff. Minigame doesn't make the experience more fun, unless Intrepid's attitude towards crafting minigames is ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-11 01:11:42
Open world pvp, free trading instead of soulbound shit, no addons, no fast travel, no group finder, open world dungeons/bosses, no super competitive instanced content (at least right now), more emphasis on community, low amount of solo pve content - those are the first ones that come to mind that are very rare in the recent mmos, while were more widespread in the old ones. And pretty much all of those is the reason I (and a group of at least 10 of my friends/acquaintances) am interested in Ashes AT ALL. They literally had "maga" hats saying "make mmos ...
Post by Ludullu on 2022-07-11 01:24:30
Yeah, I guess at this point that's a "feature" of newer mmos